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trickelb
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1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
03/06/03 at 22:10:22
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I have a Hermle 1161-053 HS GF works made in 83 that gets out of beat too easily.

This clock has the "auto beat verge and escape wheel.  It also has a very large lyre pendulum with a bob about 27 cm. in diameter.

I set the beat using Mumfords Microset Timer and let the clock run to check the time regulation.  When stopping the pendulum to adjust the regulator nut and restarting the pendulum, I find the clock to be out of beat.

Additionally, the pendulum is too large to allow enough swing to put it back in beat as good as it was after the  initial beat setting.

Does the verge/pallet "clutch" deteriorate over time allowing for the out of beat problem?

TIA,

Bruce
  
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Steve_Skibicki
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #1 - 03/07/03 at 00:37:03
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Did you overhaul the clock? Are the pivots and bushings in good order? If everything else checks out replace the verge. They are not supposed to be cleaned or lubricated. I usually carefully clean the pivots  and polish if necessary and also the pallet faces. Sometimes  I find one either dirty or lubed by a customer. And I guess they wear out and go bad like everything else. I recently had a Kieninger with the same problem. Install a new one and see  if it doesn't end your trouble. I have also found clock cases that aren't wide enough to get the proper swing. You have to  adjust the old fashioned way.
  
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trickelb
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #2 - 03/07/03 at 03:23:02
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Yes, everything thoroughly cleaned, all pivots and pivot holes polished.

Everything checks out okay and if I don't touch the pendulum it stays in beat.
  
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Len Lataille
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #3 - 03/08/03 at 01:12:01
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"When stopping the pendulum to adjust the regulator nut and restart the pendulum,I find the clock to be out of beat."
  Are you overswinging the pendulum to reset the beat? I believe that when the swing of the pendulum is interupted, and restarted without overswing, that this disturbs the beat.
   This is what used to happen  to one of my customers clocks that has the same movement. If he lets the weights run to the bottom of the case, and the clock stops, it is always out of beat when he restarts it. It took several times for me to get him to understand the need to overswing the pendulum. should the motion of the pendulum be disturbed.
 
  

Len Lataille, Moderator
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #4 - 03/09/03 at 15:25:27
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  I have run across this problem on several occassions.  Typically it is the compression fit of the verge to the arbor that has loosened.  I have found that carefully squeezing the verge with a pair of needle nose pliers and then applying a drop of Blue Loc-Tite will fix the problem, but be sure to put tissues below the verge to avoid the possibility of any Loc-Tite getting in the movemnet.  Then you always have the option of buying a new replacement verge say from LaRose that only runs about $9.50.  I did, on one 1161 movement had this same problem but the fix was tightening screws on the lyre pendulum that had become somewhat loose.  This was also one of the better very heavy pendulums but since then I always make a point to check the tigtness/stiffness of the lyre pendulums.  Hope this helps./Allen
  
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trickelb
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #5 - 03/11/03 at 22:37:38
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Yes on the "overswing", but because of the sizie of the large bob on the pendulum (10.5") there isn't enough room in the case to allow for a "good" overswing.

And yes I have checked for tighteness of the pendulum screws.

Won't the autobeat function be lost if I use loctite on the verge?

I don't see a replacement for this verge in the LaRose catalog and Blcakforest doesn't have them in stock.

Bruce
  
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Len Lataille
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #6 - 03/12/03 at 00:35:40
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    Yes, I believe that you will lose the auto beat function if you use loctite on the verge. There are other ways of tightening the verge, but from my experinece, none of them last for long and you will soon have the same problem.
    As for the overswing, are you certain that the pendulum is original to the case? Could you try a pendulum with a smaller bob?
    What is confusing about your original question is that you say that you put the clock in beat using a Microset timer, but after adjusting the pendulum, the movement is out of beat. Why not simply use the Microset to once again put the movement in beat, after the pendulum agjustment?
    If parts are no longer available for this "modern" movement, it may be time for a new movement. I would suggest parts from a scrap movement, but that movement might have been scrapped because of the same problem that you are having.
  

Len Lataille, Moderator
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #7 - 03/12/03 at 02:46:13
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The loc-tite was a suggestion and fix I have used in the past.  Yes you will lose the auto-beat funtion but you really don't have it anyway.  What my suggestion allows is for you to retain the original verge with the capability of ajusting the beat by pushing the crutch ( no auto beat) but most importantly it also allows the clock if put in beat to stay in beat, not to come out of beat by adjusting the rating nut on the pendulum bob./Allen
  
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Wayne Adams
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Re: 1161-053 HS auto verge/escape wheel
Reply #8 - 03/30/03 at 01:17:19
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Please do not lose sight of the fact that the movement and the case were not made by the same people.  It may be that the case is too narrow to accomodate the autobeat function.  Autobeat is a good feature and should be preserved. 

Try setting the autobeat by holding the pendulum to the far left.  If that doesn't work try it holding the pendulum to the far right.  If that doesn't work, the only solution I know of is to open the arbors (verge/escape) to reduce the period of engagement thereby reducing the required pendulum swing..
  

Wayne Adams
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