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LeoW
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Nano Oil
06/08/10 at 15:41:56
 
I was wondering if anyone has had experience with a product called "Nano Oil" in a form for clocks? A distributor makes a case that this oil could revolutionize clock oils because of the low friction. It is approximately half of the price of #859 synthetic oil which I now use.

I ordered and received two small quantities of two different viscosities. I will start making tests, which I am "capable" of making, as a non-engineer. This could become time consuming and even then, may not result in a long period of time picture of the result.

If any of my fellow clockmakers have any experience with "Nano oil", it would be helpful information for me, as I do not want to re-invent the wheel. I am fascinated with the idea and the claim of the product's very low friction?

Your humble, clockmaker LeoW
  

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race ready
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #1 - 06/08/10 at 20:49:13
 
I think the gentleman actually believes his own (poorly) written ad copy.
A few things bother me about "lubricants" with these claims -

- The owner never explains anything concerning formulations.

- The owner claims trademark rights but no patents or patents pending. This means that either his "formulas" aren't patentable or they are existing free use technologies.

- Sending a few free bottles of lube to the U.S. mil in Iraq does NOT mean you have any kind of endorsement or contract. AFAIK Break-Free and Tetra products are STILL in use there by U.S. forces.

- Ditto all the "demonstrated to" verbage he uses for firearms manufacturers.

- All the testimonials are from individuals, not corporations. Hard to check those. (From C.A. in California - "I make THOUSANDS now and chicks DIG me! Thanks NANO LOOB!")

- Finally, the scientific reality of what he claims might be true. I look at his ad copy claims and I really see a number of scientific dichotomies.
Seriously though, do we really need this type of lube for clocks anyhow?

Just saying....

Except for the pseudo-link containing Butterworth's name I saw nothing that was clock specific. But considering my thoughts on Mr. Butterworth I wouldn't doubt that he's peddling some of this stuff.

  
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Len Lataille
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #2 - 06/08/10 at 21:22:12
 
Leo

  There are two Nano products out there recommended for clocks, that I am aware of. One is NanoLube and the other is Nano Oil.

  NanoLube is very expensive and comes in very small bottles. Nano Oil is available in 30cc and larger bottles. It's not cheap but much cheaper than the other product and I dont have to deal with the small bottles.

  I have used both products. The NanoLube worked in some cases, but I found it too expensive to use on every clock movement, and in all locations of any movement. So I used that product mostly on mainsprings. Also, I find the claims by the distributor of that product, a bit much.

  No oil is going to correct a mechanical problem. But I have found that in some cases where I have eliminated all the problems that I could think of, both products worked.

  I prefer to use the Nano Oil, because it is a similar product, if not the same, at a much lower price. The distributor also does not make outrageous claims. 

  In cases where I suspected a friction/binding problem, Nano Oil has worked very well.

  How long either of these products will last, will be a test of time. At least by using Nano Oil, I wont go broke in the mean time.
  

Len Lataille, Moderator
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LeoW
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #3 - 06/10/10 at 14:51:24
 
These two lines, in the Ad. Copy from Butterworth Clocks, are what caught my attention.  “The Nano-bearings attach themselves to the pivot and the brass and remain even after the oil is gone.”  “Friction and wear are dramatically reduced.”

If true, those two characteristics would raise clock lubrication to a new level. Clockmakers are aware that lubrication puts an oil film space between the pivot and the bearing surface. As long as that lubrication film is present, it retards wear of both pivot and the bearing surface. With age, oil either then migrates or turns to slurry when combining with ground-up brass from the bushing.

Checking online with the “Nano-oil / Christian StClaire” web site. Their Ad does have several holes in their claims, as pointed out by Mr. Race Ready.  I am absolutely impressed with his “analysis” of those optimistic claims. He, looking much deeper than most of us, into those stated claims. I had just accepted what appeared to be factual statements.

I think I will now order “ShamWow” from the TV ad because one lady said, “She could not live without her ShamWow towels”.    Strong statement?

Mr. Lataille demonstrates that at least in the short term (as he points out), the Nano-oil lubricating qualities do work without harm to the clock. Obviously the product may be working only because of the oil carrying the Nano particles?

Thanks Len for sharing your experience in actual clock repair use. At least I now know more than I did last week, from an actual Nano-oil user.

Since I have very little money invested so far.  When I have time, I might as well proceed with some homemade experiments? After all the oil may be as advertised? I am now more than slightly disillusioned though. lol

The old curmudgeon, LeoW
  

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Steve_Skibicki
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #4 - 06/10/10 at 16:01:06
 
Yesterday on another forum a full time clock repairer said that he used this product last summer on an overhauled movement and it recently returned with worn bushings. The quality of his work  may be a factor but who can say.
I have seen this product marketed as "clock repair in a bottle".  Then the testimonial stories began to come out.
In my own experience if a movement has enough life left to run with an oiling , any clock oil will produce the same results. 
This and a few other products are now being marketed as revolutionary tools   for the clock repair field.
There is no cure all in a bottle.
 
  
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Len Lataille
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #5 - 06/10/10 at 16:56:26
 
Steve

  I agree that there is no cure in a bottle. You've seen me write on another lists that I prefer to find the mechanical problem, even if this product would work.

  Because, who knows how long would it work, if it does? As you noted one repairman has already has a comeback. Of course, there is no way to definitively place the blame on the oil, based on one example.

  I would say to LeoW, give it a try and see if IWFY.

  My primary concern all along with these Nano products is the possible contamination of my cleaning solutions, as WD-40 does. This could prove to be a disaster, should we discover down the road some years from now that the Nano products are ruinous to clock movements.

  How many clocks would have been affected by that time, through contaminated cleaning solutions?
  

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LeoW
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #6 - 06/12/10 at 13:39:44
 
Something sounds a little more than an exaggeration when an Ad. states "Clock repair in a bottle". That is more like the 19th century snake oil sales tactic from the back of a horse drawn wagon. I would think the village idiot clockmaker, would break into a laugh at that outlandish claim. I had never heard that claim and I am sure Len never did either. Otherwise, we would never have even read further.

When I received an Ad from a reputable dealer, that does not make such outlandish claims, I did pay attention. His claims seemed more inline with something that "could" be legitimate. Obviously he wants to make a sale, so you have to keep that in mind. The very low wear rate claimed is possible, I don't know?

Twenty years ago when I was told that almost everyone on the planet, would have a phone in their pocket, I scoffed at the idea. I pay the yard maintenance owner $80 to mow my yard. The people that actually mow my yard he pays $8 per hour and each have phones in their pocket.

I will attempt to contact some of the German movement makers and see if they have any information? We do know that some use the #859 oil and say so. I would think they would at least have investigated Nano oil?

When Mr. Race Ready, shot several holes into the advertisement, from "Christian St Claire's" web site, that is really hard to ignore. Quoting Shakespeare, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

That professional clockmaker probably has to look forward to the many clocks he overhauled coming back? I will bet he is upset if it was the problem with the oil and not an aberration?.

Your humble fellow clockmaker, LeoW
  

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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #7 - 06/12/10 at 22:22:35
 
LeoW

  As for the clock repairmans clocks all coming back, it was a chance that he took.

  If the human race never took any chances, the cave man would still fear making the first fire and we certainly would have never walked on the moon.

  That said, I would have been more careful about using a new product, exclusively in any clock that belonged to a customer until after it had cleared some tests on some of my own.

  As for the German movement makers, I have heard from a reliable source that Hermle is considering using Nano Oil (not Lube) to replace the E-#859.

  That's unfortunate as I purchased many years worth of the 859 not long ago.
  

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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #8 - 08/11/10 at 14:59:06
 
Steve_Skibicki wrote on 06/10/10 at 16:01:06:
Yesterday on another forum a full time clock repairer said that he used this product last summer on an overhauled movement and it recently returned with worn bushings. The quality of his work  may be a factor but who can say.
I have seen this product marketed as "clock repair in a bottle".  Then the testimonial stories began to come out.
In my own experience if a movement has enough life left to run with an oiling , any clock oil will produce the same results.  
This and a few other products are now being marketed as revolutionary tools   for the clock repair field.
There is no cure all in a bottle.

Hello All, Hello Steve,

My name is Christian StClaire behind the Nano-Oil, Nano-Grease and quite a few other developments not related to lubrication.

First & foremost, StClaire & or any of its associates have never claimed "Clock Repair in a Bottle"
your statement if both defamatory & just plain untrue.
Such a statement would be both misleading, reckless and very much insulting to any reputable clock manufacturer/restorer.

The only verbiage used by StClaire in the past does not even come  close to the outlandish statements made by the "Other gentleman selling his oil in the very tiny bottle" as mentioned in post #2 by Len Lataille

However StClaire has made statements such as: Nano-Oil alleviates mechanical conflicts, nothing more, nothing less as this attribute of Nano-Oil has been demonstrated many times by end users even after the carrier oil had disappeared.

Nano-Oil has been used since circa 1998 by Government agencies such as NASA, NSSF (National Submarine Service Facilities) etc.  a short list of clients taking advantage of the effects of Nano-Oil in mechanical components can be found here: StClaireUSA dot com  this website is the venue in supplying high pressure gas delivery systems which none of them were ever returned nor reported as having a single failure since circa 1997  after millions of combined cycling of the devices treated with Nano-Oil.

Any way, I am glad someone alerted me to such posts in this forum & I thank you for this opportunity to clear the air.

I wish you all a wonderful week.
  

Christian StClaire, (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) &&Nano-Oil in GSA contract award # GS-07F-0825N
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Steve_Skibicki
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #9 - 08/11/10 at 15:53:09
 
I am familiar with the product Nano-Lube. The person marketing the product does indeed call this clock repair in a bottle.   Go to you tube, you will find a video by this person . The title is  Quicken nano lube clock repair in a bottle.
Before you come on here and call me a liar  check the facts
  
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #10 - 08/11/10 at 15:59:58
 
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Len Lataille
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #11 - 08/11/10 at 16:55:47
 
In clock repair, there are certain subjects, that "stir the emotions" and lubricants of any type, is one of those subjects.

All of us have our favorites that have worked for us and we are reluctant to try anything else.

There is nothing unsual about this attitude.

In the current discussion, part of the confusion lies in the fact that there are two different and yet similar substances used for lubrication, that have similar names, currently on the market.

Perhaps, Mr St Clair might consider a change in the name of his product to help differenciate his product from the other. "Nano-Oil Only by St Clair" or something similar. It would certainly be to his advantage to avoid this confusion with a product that is producing negative publicity for both.

In discussions, from what I have heard, as soon as the word "nano" is heard, both products are thought of as one and the same.

As stated before, my preference is for the Nano Oil produced by Mr. St Clair, based primarily on the costs, for the time being.

However, since made my last comments, I had a clock movemnet that despite my best attemtps would not run reliably. I had installed several bushings, yet there was plenty of endshake and sideshake. The arbors were very free to fall as the movement was turned.

The use of Nano Oil solved the problem, or certainly appeared to. It has been 8 weeks and the clock is still running well.

My conclusion was that once power was put on the train, one or more of the bushings, or perhaps twisting of the plates, was causing a binding.

This loss of power due to friction, or as Mr. St Clair calls it "mechanical conflicts", I would not consider a mechanical defect. For as I have said before, no lubricant even that one that makes the outrageous claims to overcome such defects, can possibly compensate for a failure in depthing due to worn brearings.

The only conclusion that I cannot make, is whether it was specifically the Nano Oil or if any other oil would have made the same difference, in my recent expereince. There will be no way to tell, except to wait and see.

I'm also of the opinion, that if the Nano Oil does not work, then indeed there must be a very serious mechanical problem, that despite all my precautions, I have missed.

In those cases, there is no option but to go back and search for that problem.

I am currently doing a one to one experiment. One clock I overhaul is lubricated with "Nano Oil by St Clair". The next overhaul is oiled with Ethsynthia 859.

Hopefully, both will do well and I WILL be around to see the results.



  

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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #12 - 08/11/10 at 17:56:13
 
Steve_Skibicki wrote on 08/11/10 at 15:53:09:
I am familiar with the product Nano-Lube. The person marketing the product does indeed call this clock repair in a bottle.   Go to you tube, you will find a video by this person . The title is  Quicken nano lube clock repair in a bottle.
Before you come on here and call me a liar  check the facts

Hello Steve,

By posting a reply on this list, my intention was certainly not to insult nor call anyone a liar.
I just wanted the record straight, since one of you has called this thread Nano-Oil,

I assumed that your reference was to Nano-Oil, as I am sure most readers also have.

So again no offense meant, none taken.

The author of "Clock Repair in a Bottle" was actually doing the same thing on Armament forums where he called it "Trigger Job in a Bottle" suggesting that gunsmiths use it and charge for a trigger job, the person actually ended up banned from quite a few forums/fora .

I can assure you that StClaire is not and has never been in for the quick buck and specially not taking such an unethical path to marketing.
  

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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #13 - 08/12/10 at 14:52:06
 
race ready wrote on 06/08/10 at 20:49:13:
I think the gentleman actually believes his own (poorly) written ad copy.
A few things bother me about "lubricants" with these claims -

- The owner never explains anything concerning formulations.

- The owner claims trademark rights but no patents or patents pending. This means that either his "formulas" aren't patentable or they are existing free use technologies.

- Sending a few free bottles of lube to the U.S. mil in Iraq does NOT mean you have any kind of endorsement or contract. AFAIK Break-Free and Tetra products are STILL in use there by U.S. forces.

- Ditto all the "demonstrated to" verbage he uses for firearms manufacturers.

- All the testimonials are from individuals, not corporations. Hard to check those. (From C.A. in California - "I make THOUSANDS now and chicks DIG me! Thanks NANO LOOB!")

- Finally, the scientific reality of what he claims might be true. I look at his ad copy claims and I really see a number of scientific dichotomies.
Seriously though, do we really need this type of lube for clocks anyhow?

Just saying....

Except for the pseudo-link containing Butterworth's name I saw nothing that was clock specific. But considering my thoughts on Mr. Butterworth I wouldn't doubt that he's peddling some of this stuff.


Dear Race,

I realize that you must be using deduction to arrive to your statement, however it is my belief that such is seriously flawed and coming from someone who never dealt with either.

as far as the active ingredient in Nano-Oil formulation, Nano-Bearings are re-engineered hydro carbon molecules under extreme pressure and temperature in a proprietary process resulting in a very predictable spherical shape and sizing.
A few entities out there will extrapolate from this statement and I am sure will derive to a conclusion. some could call this resultant, Nano Diamonds, spherical fullerenes or buckyballs, we simply chose not to.

When you say all testimonials are from individuals, you are wrong and if you took a minute to navigate the website you would have found an industrial concern among others with presence world wide who are using Nano-Oil with great success.

Again thank you for pointing to an antiquated website which will be upgrade shortly.

Further, Nano-Oil product line is now in the GSA #GS-07F-0825N

Affidavits from Horology date back to 2007 when the product was release to the public and they are numerous, again they will be uploaded into the websites under their own category of usage.

Last, I really resent the word "Peddling" that you are using in reference to Mister Mark Butterworth, I do not know what lays beneath your belittling of another person, however this seem un gentleman like of you to do so, just my opinion.

I have included a few links below for anyone interested to find out where Christian StClaire is coming from.  

No bad feelings on my part, this post was done for the sake of correctness.

--
Best Regards,    

Christian StClaire  

About Christian StClaire: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
StClaire Patent US 6,168,288 in Gulf's Oil Spill cleaning effort, assigned to Tektite Corp.  
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Nano-Oil in GSA contract # GS-07F-0825N
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  - GSA                      - GSA ADVANTAGE       - DoD eMall
  - AAFES Online Mall  - BSC’s (Base Supply Stores)
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Re: Nano Oil
Reply #14 - 08/22/10 at 01:25:02
 
I have used the nano il from St Claire and i have found interesting things.For one.I find to oil a clock with this oil is a good thing.On the other hand i have found watch movements run much faster after using this oil on them.
But overall i like this product and will continue to use it for clocks.
  

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